Enroute and in between approaches, they say if you aren't doing something,
you've forgotten something.
I've come across a few checklists on the web that include a few items to
check enroute, and I'd like to get a feel for what you folks here feel are
your best enroute "housekeeping chores".
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

Wizard of Draws wrote:

> Enroute and in between approaches, they say if you aren't doing something,
> you've forgotten something.
> I've come across a few checklists on the web that include a few items to
> check enroute, and I'd like to get a feel for what you folks here feel are
> your best enroute "housekeeping chores".

Filing Skyspotter PIREPS (which includes calculating winds aloft using
GPS), receiving weather, PIREPS, and updated radar images for remaining
route and destination, comparing actual weather to forecast, comparing
planned to actual fuel burn, calculating remaining fuel, briefing the
approach, and calculating time needed to descend (in order to call ATC
and ask for lower by if they don't offer it by a certain point).

I am not saying this is the best; rather these are the tasks I do at
this stage of my experience while en route.

--
Peter







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Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or do a VOR
cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim fingernails,
finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross country you have plenty
of dead time.

"Wizard of Draws" > wrote in message
news:BC923922.8C66%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraws .com...
> Enroute and in between approaches, they say if you aren't doing something,
> you've forgotten something.
> I've come across a few checklists on the web that include a few items to
> check enroute, and I'd like to get a feel for what you folks here feel are
> your best enroute "housekeeping chores".
> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
> Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
> www.wizardofdraws.com
> www.cartoonclipart.com
>

>Enroute and in between approaches, they say if you aren't doing something,
>you've forgotten something.

Unless you're solid IMC, it might be a good idea to look out the
window now and then.

vince norris

>Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or do a VOR
>cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim fingernails,
>finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross country you have plenty
>of dead time.

You are either a super pilot or have a autopilot.

What's wrong with sitting back and enjoying the flight?


(Hankal) wrote in
:

>>Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or do
>>a VOR cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim
>>fingernails, finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross
>>country you have plenty of dead time.
>
> You are either a super pilot or have a autopilot.
>

Are you kidding? The autopilot is a go/no-go item.

"Hankal" > wrote in message
...
> >Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or do a
VOR
> >cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim
fingernails,
> >finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross country you have
plenty
> >of dead time.
>
> You are either a super pilot or have a autopilot.

On 4/2/04 10:55 AM, in article ,
"vincent p. norris" > wrote:

>> Enroute and in between approaches, they say if you aren't doing something,
>> you've forgotten something.
>
> Unless you're solid IMC, it might be a good idea to look out the
> window now and then.
>
> vince norris

Absolutely. That's one of the primary reasons I love to fly: the view. But
right now I'm winding up my IFR training and so far, there hasn't been a lot
of 'enroute' time to think about housekeeping. Just fly the missed and
immediately set up for the next approach.
Tomorrow we're scheduled for the long XC to Knoxville, TN, so I'll have a
bit of time to keep house, but no view since I'll be under the hood.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

Good luck on the long XC. Hope for clouds. Half of mine was in and out
of the clouds, which required the hood. 1/4 was above the deck (great
view of a US Air Dash-8 breaking through the undercast, then holding at
5000' while we passed over). 1/4 of the trip was in solid IFR. Great
experience and easier IMHO than using the hood.

Wizard of Draws wrote:
> On 4/2/04 10:55 AM, in article ,
> "vincent p. norris" > wrote:
>
>
>>>Enroute and in between approaches, they say if you aren't doing something,
>>>you've forgotten something.
>>
>>Unless you're solid IMC, it might be a good idea to look out the
>>window now and then.
>>
>>vince norris
>
>
> Absolutely. That's one of the primary reasons I love to fly: the view. But
> right now I'm winding up my IFR training and so far, there hasn't been a lot
> of 'enroute' time to think about housekeeping. Just fly the missed and
> immediately set up for the next approach.
> Tomorrow we're scheduled for the long XC to Knoxville, TN, so I'll have a
> bit of time to keep house, but no view since I'll be under the hood.


--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

Dan Thompson wrote:
> Are you kidding? The autopilot is a go/no-go item.
>
> "Hankal" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or do a
>>
> VOR
>
>>>cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim
>>
> fingernails,
>
>>>finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross country you have
>>
> plenty
>
>>>of dead time.
>>
>>You are either a super pilot or have a autopilot.
>
>
>

What's an autopilot? :-)

Matt

house keeping chores inflight?
I dont really do any thing, flip on the auto pilot and relax, follow along on
my map, cross check VOR's, 30 minutes out get anything ready I need to land,
if its going to me an instrument approach get everything out and review it,
pull up the proper frequencies, setup for the approach.


Wizard of Draws wrote:

> Enroute and in between approaches, they say if you aren't doing something,
> you've forgotten something.
> I've come across a few checklists on the web that include a few items to
> check enroute, and I'd like to get a feel for what you folks here feel are
> your best enroute "housekeeping chores".
> --
> Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
> Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
> www.wizardofdraws.com
> www.cartoonclipart.com

In article >,
Wizard of Draws > wrote:
>Absolutely. That's one of the primary reasons I love to fly: the view. But
>right now I'm winding up my IFR training and so far, there hasn't been a lot
>of 'enroute' time to think about housekeeping.

I intentionally planned a few of our approach flights to include some
complicated enroute parts on the way. Even so I think enroute was the
weakest part of my training -- after reading IFR diaries from people in
the Bay Area my ATC experience seems pretty bland by comparison. I never
got any reroutes other than radar vectors.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

IMHO an autopilot is a must have if you are flying IFR. :-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

> Dan Thompson wrote:
>
>> Are you kidding? The autopilot is a go/no-go item.
>>
>> "Hankal" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>> Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or
>>>> do a
>>>
>>>
>> VOR
>>
>>>> cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim
>>>
>>>
>> fingernails,
>>
>>>> finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross country you have
>>>
>>>
>> plenty
>>
>>>> of dead time.
>>>
>>>
>>> You are either a super pilot or have a autopilot.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> What's an autopilot? :-)
>
> Matt
>

Jon Kraus wrote:
> IMHO an autopilot is a must have if you are flying IFR. :-)

Good thing I didn't know that or I'd not have been able to fly my
Skylane for six years in IFR! The Skylane also apparently didn't know
that it needed an autopilot as it flew in the clouds just fine without
it. :-)

There were a few times when an AP would have been nice, such as when
getting a full route reroute and having to reprogram the GPS, but even
that could be done in stages. Just get the first waypoint in and then
you could add the others one or two at a time.

Does tend to keep your flying skills pretty sharp ... and I never had to
worry about my AP failing at a critical time.


Matt

Kidding aside, the autopilot takes the monotony and boredom out of IFR. To
me, there is nothing challenging about maintaining altitude and track for
hours at a time in the clouds. It is just boring as hell. The autopilot is
not a substitute for hand-flying skills. One must always be sharp enough to
go without. I usually hand fly approaches, because I enjoy it. If I am
really tired for some reason, or the ceilings are really low, it is actually
safer to use the autopilot which can fly the approach better than I can.

My initial and instrument flight instructor back in the early '90s went on
to flying ATR turboprops for American Eagle. One time he called me up out
of the blue to see if I wanted to go fly some practice approaches in my
plane. I was amazed to find out that the commuter planes then were not
equipped with autopilots. He said with two pilots on board, and short, fast
hops between stops, it was never really an issue.

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
...
> IMHO an autopilot is a must have if you are flying IFR. :-)
>
> Jon Kraus
> PP-ASEL
> Student-IA
>
> Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>
> > Dan Thompson wrote:
> >
> >> Are you kidding? The autopilot is a go/no-go item.
> >>
> >> "Hankal" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>> Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or
> >>>> do a
> >>>
> >>>
> >> VOR
> >>
> >>>> cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim
> >>>
> >>>
> >> fingernails,
> >>
> >>>> finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross country you have
> >>>
> >>>
> >> plenty
> >>
> >>>> of dead time.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You are either a super pilot or have a autopilot.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > What's an autopilot? :-)
> >
> > Matt
> >
>

Why? I've only recently put an autopilot in my plane, and it is jsut a
single axis one at that. Before installing it, I've never flown IFR WITH and
autopilot equipped plane (I have ~1100 hrs in 'the system'). Autopilot is
nice for flipping maps, taking clearances etc, but I don't consider it
mandatory. Even now, I hand fly most of the time. The autopilot mostly gets
used only when attending to other chores. For flying in the Northeast, I
think having a strikefinder or equiv spherics detector is a much higher
priority than having an autopilot.

Jon Kraus wrote:

> IMHO an autopilot is a must have if you are flying IFR. :-)
>
> Jon Kraus
> PP-ASEL
> Student-IA
>
> Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>
> > Dan Thompson wrote:
> >
> >> Are you kidding? The autopilot is a go/no-go item.
> >>
> >> "Hankal" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>> Study my Garmin 530 manual and learn three more things it does. Or
> >>>> do a
> >>>
> >>>
> >> VOR
> >>
> >>>> cross check. Or total up the columns in my log book. Or trim
> >>>
> >>>
> >> fingernails,
> >>
> >>>> finish the crossword puzzle. If it is a real cross country you have
> >>>
> >>>
> >> plenty
> >>
> >>>> of dead time.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You are either a super pilot or have a autopilot.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > What's an autopilot? :-)
> >
> > Matt
> >

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka wrote:
> Why? I've only recently put an autopilot in my plane, and it is jsut a
> single axis one at that. Before installing it, I've never flown IFR WITH and
> autopilot equipped plane (I have ~1100 hrs in 'the system'). Autopilot is
> nice for flipping maps, taking clearances etc, but I don't consider it
> mandatory. Even now, I hand fly most of the time. The autopilot mostly gets
> used only when attending to other chores. For flying in the Northeast, I
> think having a strikefinder or equiv spherics detector is a much higher
> priority than having an autopilot.

I agree. My Skylane had a Strikefinder, but no AP. I seldom even
wished for an AP. I'd have much rather had a moving map GPS.

Matt

I never said you couldn't fly IFR without an autopilot. For myself being
new to IFR flying I wouldn't chance IMC without the autopilot working.
Since my club only has newer planes, they all have two axis autopilots,
that way if something happens (spacial disorientation) I'm covered. I
think I'll bring up this topic in a new thread and see what kind of
responses I get. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> IMHO an autopilot is a must have if you are flying IFR. :-)
>
>
> Good thing I didn't know that or I'd not have been able to fly my
> Skylane for six years in IFR! The Skylane also apparently didn't know
> that it needed an autopilot as it flew in the clouds just fine without
> it. :-)
>
> There were a few times when an AP would have been nice, such as when
> getting a full route reroute and having to reprogram the GPS, but even
> that could be done in stages. Just get the first waypoint in and then
> you could add the others one or two at a time.
>
> Does tend to keep your flying skills pretty sharp ... and I never had
> to worry about my AP failing at a critical time.
>
>
> Matt
>

On 4/3/04 9:05 AM, in article , "Dan
Truesdell" > wrote:

> Good luck on the long XC. Hope for clouds. Half of mine was in and out
> of the clouds, which required the hood. 1/4 was above the deck (great
> view of a US Air Dash-8 breaking through the undercast, then holding at
> 5000' while we passed over). 1/4 of the trip was in solid IFR. Great
> experience and easier IMHO than using the hood.
>
No XC today, too much breeze. Trying to get this thing done is like
scheduling a checkride. This is try #3.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
www.wizardofdraws.com
www.cartoonclipart.com

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> Why? I've only recently put an autopilot in my plane, and it is jsut a
> single axis one at that. Before installing it, I've never flown IFR WITH
and
> autopilot equipped plane (I have ~1100 hrs in 'the system'). Autopilot is
> nice for flipping maps, taking clearances etc, but I don't consider it
> mandatory. Even now, I hand fly most of the time. The autopilot mostly
gets
> used only when attending to other chores. For flying in the Northeast, I
> think having a strikefinder or equiv spherics detector is a much higher
> priority than having an autopilot.
>
> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
> > IMHO an autopilot is a must have if you are flying IFR. :-)
> >


Under a situation of limited funds, one must weigh alternatives. This
article (from a autopilot manufacturer, so take what they say with a grain
of salt) does make some damn good, well reasoned points (in the form of a
decision tree at the end of the article).

www.s-tec.com/pdf/AutoPilotBook.pdf

I agree, an autopilot is a useful tool, which is why I added one to my
airplane. The need for one is, I think, also dependent on the airplane. If
you've got an airplane that is a little squirrelly, you'll need an autopilot
more than if you have one that handles more like a truck. I fly a cherokee Six,
which is incredibly stable for IFR operations...that is to say that it handles
like a sled...it takes a bit of effort to make it turn at all. Given the
stability of this airframe, an autopilot was not as high a priority as some
other things. If it were a Tiger or Bonanza, I'm sure the importance would have
carried more weight.

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

>
>
> Under a situation of limited funds, one must weigh alternatives. This
> article (from a autopilot manufacturer, so take what they say with a grain
> of salt) does make some damn good, well reasoned points (in the form of a
> decision tree at the end of the article).
>
> www.s-tec.com/pdf/AutoPilotBook.pdf

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> I agree, an autopilot is a useful tool, which is why I added one to my
> airplane. The need for one is, I think, also dependent on the airplane.
If
> you've got an airplane that is a little squirrelly, you'll need an
autopilot
> more than if you have one that handles more like a truck. I fly a
cherokee Six,
> which is incredibly stable for IFR operations...that is to say that it
handles
> like a sled...it takes a bit of effort to make it turn at all. Given the
> stability of this airframe, an autopilot was not as high a priority as
some
> other things. If it were a Tiger or Bonanza, I'm sure the importance
would have
> carried more weight.
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Under a situation of limited funds, one must weigh alternatives. This
> > article (from a autopilot manufacturer, so take what they say with a
grain
> > of salt) does make some damn good, well reasoned points (in the form of
a
> > decision tree at the end of the article).
> >
> > www.s-tec.com/pdf/AutoPilotBook.pdf
>

And as you and the article state it should be only a TOOL, not a crutch. IN
a similar vein, it should be used like cruise control in a car; it should
not cause a deterioration in the ability to drive (and no, I'm not referring
to the Urban Legend® of the guy in the motor home that turned on cruise
control and went back to fix a sam'ich. ) :~)

FWIW, although both my cars are equipped with cruise control, I don't use it at
all. Anyway, I think we are pretty much in agreement that an autopilot is a
useful tool and should not be depended on as a surrogate for pilot ability. If
I can't fly as well as the autopilot, I have no business being there. That
said, my point was that (for me anyway) an autopilot is not a must have, but it
is fairly high on the list of desirables.


>
> And as you and the article state it should be only a TOOL, not a crutch. IN
> a similar vein, it should be used like cruise control in a car; it should
> not cause a deterioration in the ability to drive (and no, I'm not referring
> to the Urban Legend® of the guy in the motor home that turned on cruise
> control and went back to fix a sam'ich. ) :~)

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> FWIW, although both my cars are equipped with cruise control, I don't use
it at
> all. Anyway, I think we are pretty much in agreement that an autopilot is
a
> useful tool and should not be depended on as a surrogate for pilot
ability. If
> I can't fly as well as the autopilot, I have no business being there.
That
> said, my point was that (for me anyway) an autopilot is not a must have,
but it
> is fairly high on the list of desirables.
>

Out here in the West, where drinving distances are ENORMOUS (even in town),
CC is a necessity. For one thing, it'll hold the speed better than a human
can and thus provide better fuel economy. I shudder to think of driving
through Kansas without CC, especially with highway patrol hiding in the
bushes. :~)

Jon Kraus wrote:
> I never said you couldn't fly IFR without an autopilot. For myself being
> new to IFR flying I wouldn't chance IMC without the autopilot working.
> Since my club only has newer planes, they all have two axis autopilots,
> that way if something happens (spacial disorientation) I'm covered. I
> think I'll bring up this topic in a new thread and see what kind of
> responses I get. Thanks for the enlightenment.

I know you didn't say that, hence the smiley after my statement.
However, and this is a serious statement, I would never fly IFR if I
even thought I'd have to depend on the AP to rescue me from spatial
disorientation.


Matt

Ray Andraka wrote:
> FWIW, although both my cars are equipped with cruise control, I don't use it at
> all. Anyway, I think we are pretty much in agreement that an autopilot is a
> useful tool and should not be depended on as a surrogate for pilot ability. If
> I can't fly as well as the autopilot, I have no business being there. That
> said, my point was that (for me anyway) an autopilot is not a must have, but it
> is fairly high on the list of desirables.

I use my CC all the time, but then driving is a lot more boring than
flying IFR. And if my CC dies, it likely won't crash my car!! :-)


Matt

I live in the Northeast. If I used my CC, I'd likely crash my car ;-)

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:

> RI use my CC all the time, but then driving is a lot more boring than
> flying IFR. And if my CC dies, it likely won't crash my car!! :-)
>
> Matt

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

We'll we don't go up into the clag saying "I think I'll get spatially
disoriented today" do we... You don't have to depend on it but - "what
your facial expression would be after you were mixed up in the clag and
the AP helped you out" PRICELESS.. :-)

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> I never said you couldn't fly IFR without an autopilot. For myself
>> being new to IFR flying I wouldn't chance IMC without the autopilot
>> working. Since my club only has newer planes, they all have two axis
>> autopilots, that way if something happens (spacial disorientation)
>> I'm covered. I think I'll bring up this topic in a new thread and see
>> what kind of responses I get. Thanks for the enlightenment.
>
>
> I know you didn't say that, hence the smiley after my statement.
> However, and this is a serious statement, I would never fly IFR if I
> even thought I'd have to depend on the AP to rescue me from spatial
> disorientation.
>
>
> Matt
>

Jon Kraus wrote:
> We'll we don't go up into the clag saying "I think I'll get spatially
> disoriented today" do we... You don't have to depend on it but - "what
> your facial expression would be after you were mixed up in the clag and
> the AP helped you out" PRICELESS.. :-)

It is the expression I'd get when I lose proficiency and my failed AP
takes me into an attitude that I no longer have the skills to recover
from that I worry about. That's priceless also, but in a much more
permanent way... :-) Although, your wife might be happy if your life
insurance is paid up!


Matt

Ray Andraka ) wrote:

> FWIW, although both my cars are equipped with cruise control, I don't use
> it at all.

The day an automobile's cruise control will track the lane without drifting
to either side is the day I consider the CC similar to an aircraft's AP.

In its current incarnation, the CC is analogous to the aircraft's locking
throttle. :)

--
Peter












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"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Ray Andraka ) wrote:
>
> > FWIW, although both my cars are equipped with cruise control, I don't
use
> > it at all.
>
> The day an automobile's cruise control will track the lane without
drifting
> to either side is the day I consider the CC similar to an aircraft's AP.
>
> In its current incarnation, the CC is analogous to the aircraft's locking
> throttle. :)

Follow someone on the open road and see how precisely the maintain speed.
Note, too, how many have speeds that vary 10-15 MPH or even more in hilly
country.

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

> What's an autopilot? :-)

The guy in the right seat.

--Dave